"I always felt like my queerness was not something that was opposed to God, but rather where I connect deeper to God."
How has your queer identity and faith identity intersected?
I'm a double PK, a double pastor’s kid, and my parents both were very liberal. I never had a strong sense of judgment in religious spaces. I definitely had internalized shame around normativity, but interestingly enough, I never thought that God was a problem, more like societal norms. I actually feel that spirituality and faith have been a huge part of my coming-out story. I always felt like my queerness was not something that was opposed to God, but rather where I connect deeper to God in many different ways. That's also why I sought out more queer-centered ministry, because I think the queer communities and queer churches, for that matter, can really be spaces where we can feel the divine and the love of God.
How has your faith influenced your coming out process?
I was around 20 when I came out. I was at a point where I was ripening the idea [to come out] in my head. I was actually listening to a spiritual song, and there was a bible passage quoted, “Love does not rejoice in injustice, but rejoices with the truth.” And at that moment, I was like, “I want to come out today.”
It was kind of a spiritual moment of, “Okay, today is the day.” God wants me to rejoice in my truth, and if I want to fully love myself and others, I’ve got to stand in my truth, if I can. Then I came out to my parents for the first time. My story of coming out is very strongly tied to a moment where I feel like I experienced the spirit.
When did you know that you were indeed loved by God?
The blessing that I grew up with was that my parents taught me as pastors that God loves people unconditionally and wants the best for them. Even though the parents I grew up with were still rather heteronormative, this stuck with me. I never felt that I am not loved by God. I think it also approaches how I view faith and queerness nowadays. I'm well-versed in apologetics, basically trying to argue Bible passages, but it's not what I'm primarily interested in for myself or other queer people because I don't think that our queerness is something that needs to be defended. It's something that needs to be celebrated and seen as an avenue towards the divine. I acknowledge that sometimes you need these defenses to get other people to get there, or keep yourself safe, or argue for your rights, but I think that's not the ultimate goal.
Do you have any scripture or sacred texts that you connect to?
I always love the passage in Isaiah 43:1.
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.”
I like to think that God calls us by the name that we want to be called by. It's also something we ask, if we do remembrance of baptism or baptize people in our church- we ask which name does God call you, or do you want to be called? Because I think it's so important to have people affirming their actual identity.
We had a church retreat last year, and we did a renewal of baptism. Although you get only baptized once, you can get blessed again with water to remember. We had some people who had gotten baptized in their dead names then could do this renewal in their chosen name, and it was really, really meaningful to them. It was a sense of like, “Wow, even in this sacred ritual, I am affirmed in who I am.”
What it means to me is that God's ultimate message is a message of unconditional love and of seeing us unconditionally as we truly are, in all our fluidity as we change. This is a continuous statement. It's not like I've called you by name once, you're mine, but it's continuous. This promise doesn't fall away, and no one can take that from you either, no matter how much they scream at you or throw Bible passages at you.
What advice would you have for other queer people of faith?
I would give them the advice that even though they might feel isolated and alone, which is very valid because they might be in a situation where they are, there are communities out there, and there are people of faith, and Christians, who live out boldly and proudly their queerness and their faith. There are communities out there that will love you and accept you just as you are. I hope that these young people find their way there someday. Also if they are feeling like they got too hurt by their faith and religion, it's totally fine to also say this is not my avenue right now. In my own personal faith, I think God is way broader than this. It's more about where can you find healing and love and community. I think that's what God wants for them too.
What are some ways that your queerness has helped you connect deeper to God?
What queerness does in one way is liberate the body. I think that sexuality, pleasure, but also sexual, gender expression, more colorful, free expression of the body in general, are all ways to get more authentically in touch with oneself, and also with the divine. I think I got a broader understanding of what God is, and of what love can be, and of what self-love and love of the other can be. Pleasure is not something that's bad, but actually something very beautiful and divine, I'd say.